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[Enjin Archive] Questions and thoughts about MCMMO
Started by [E] antonyoo

subignition wrote:
I didn't really realize people would yank weapons and warp away, but I can think of an easy fix for that.

In free PVP zones, make all warp/teleport commands force you to be unmoving for 3-5 seconds before warping. Or, a 30 second cooldown after giving/receiving PVP damage (in ANY world) before you can warp.

Edit: Actually, this kind of fix is something that should happen regardless of MCMMO, it's annoying to have people warp away to heal just before dying.

30 second cooldowns and 3~5 seconds before warping away will be useless considering the existence of ender pearls. And also, there is already a 10 second cooldown for non-pvp enforced zones. However, 30 seconds is hardly enough to kill someone with decent armor, especially after they have taken your sword. I fear that most pvp fights will become, as said before, a chase rather than a fight.

I feel as though it would be better just to get rid of disarming in the first place.
subignition wrote:
Sigh, entire page of responses while I type one post... I'm slow. Actually, now that I'm done typing, this post is just %!@#ing gigantic.
dunsjohn wrote:
Although yes you did answer his question, you didn't have to be such a dick about it. He's entitled to his opinion just as you are. Don't shut other people's opinions out the door just because you don't agree with them. The skill has both it's pros and cons, just as any skill does. Some people look at the cons more, others the pros. It's your duty as a human being to respect both types of people. Again, no need to be a dick about it. >.>

I'm not being a dick about it at all. I haven't cursed, I haven't insulted anyone, I disagreed with his view and provided evidence for mine. That's how arguing works. Perhaps my absolute rhetoric was hyperbole but I think you'll find that by most standards I'm being quite reasonable.

Let's be perfectly clear here. The idea of the skill is great. The implementation is not. MCMMO's PVP isn't balanced yet, even its author has said as much, but that doesn't mean Disarm should be removed. It makes sense thematically and from a tactical standpoint, and while it needs balance and bug fixes (I believe Disarm currently is active even if you're using a weapon) it's definitely a fantastic idea.
dunsjohn wrote:
EDIT: btw, read more than just the original post. If you actually did, you'd realize it isn't just him. I stated I don't agree with this skill either. Again, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to stated such.

Okay, I was being a little hostile when I wrote that phrase, but let's not get into why I have a problem with him complaining about getting disarmed, because, hey, we're being respectful. Also that will be addressed further on.

stupid forum software has post reply hotkeyed to enter.. grumble grumble posting my messages before they're done being written...

You just owned yourself, by saying you were hostile. lmao. Btw, look at your sentence structure. And if you didn't know, I'm probably most well known for my theoretical and hypothetical argumentation that I provide to this community. Whether I be disliked or liked for it matters not to me, however I can bet you didn't realize that you were slightly insulting. You completely rejected his idea and called it wrong just based on personal opinion. That isn't argumentation, that is called a bias. Before claiming to be having a debate, at least know what you have said and are saying. Just because you didn't use profanity or directly insult someone doesn't mean you weren't insulting. Even the simplest words can be insulting given the correct tone. For example, "The Bitch is dead." Emphasize "Bitch," and cap the "B" and it implies the female dog. This is something discussed in animal science, one of my courses, on almost a daily basis so it is not my intent to use profanity. It IS the ACTUAL term used in the veterinary science community. Because I emphasize that word in a phrase to, say... a friend who doesn't know about that, they think I'm saying some crazy girl is dead and I'm happy about it. What if I once called my friend's friend that term? My friend would then be insulted by the phrase I made about the dog, correct? It's all about semantics and how you phrase things. If you want to have a theoretical discussion, you have to learn to provide things that aren't based on personal opinion. In addition, you can't say someone's opinion is wrong unless you have evidence to prove such. For example, if I think Hitler was awesome for the Holocaust, I'd be wrong. It was terrible what he did. What is that based on? United Nation's Conventions. Everything needs a basis, and in argumentation personal opinion is not allowed as evidence. Sure, you're allowed an opinion and you're free to say your opinion, so long as you state it as your opinion, just leave it as that and try to build supporting statements for your opinion.

In addition, I do remember posting something in the past about... I don't know, the economy and it's "impending doom!" It is NOT going to happen. The economy will NOT be affected by this. This is open to everyone, and therefore prices will always be in a stabilized position, except for the initial shock. Sure, there might be two or three days where certain shops are cheaper than others by a significant value. However, that'll change after a couple days where prices start to equalize. Like subignition said, double drop is a reward for those who devote themselves. If it really becomes a problem, staff could always increase the amount of experience needed to attain levels, which is quite easy to change. We've done it once. What used to take a few days to gain a hundred or two levels now takes a week. To gain level 1000, I'd expect it to take roughly a month's time, maybe less. That's for someone who probably plays 8 hours a day. So, if someone devotes all their time on the game just for the purpose of mining, I'd think they deserve the double drop. In addition, majority of the world is cobble, right? So what, they get double cobble... it's cheap, and cobble is infinite with the cobble generator. That won't affect much of anything. Glowstone is a resource everyone needs for building anything, so only about half of what you mine with double drop will see the market, so that's not a significant increase. As to diamonds/gold/iron and the such, that's their reward for working so hard at leveling their skill.

If you want to speak tactically about Disarm, I shall as well. Disarm, if allowed in it's current state, should have something to counter it. Not something to counter all of it, but something to decrease the chances of losing your weapon. Perhaps a parry skill which decreases the chance of losing your weapon. Or perhaps that be included in the acrobatics skill at a later time. In all actuality, disarm doesn't provide a "tactical" advantage. You can't choose when it activates, therefore your use of words is incorrect. Nothing about the skill can you choose. It doesn't help pvp at all because if you try to disarm someone, you have to switch to your hands, dealing no damage and risk dying with all your things. As compared to a full enchanted sword. Then again, if you steal someone's weapon (90% of all pvp people probably only carry one weapon with them) you then take an unfair advantage. Each side gains an unfair advantage with this skill. In addition, the damage bonus is ridiculous... you can deal as much damage with your hands as a sword. How fair is that? Not very... therefore if you have disarm, the person with disarm always has an advantage over someone with a weapon.
dunsjohn wrote:
wall of text

I liked the part where you criticized my sentence structure then started talking about bitches and Hitler. Looks like we agree about mining though. You also contradict yourself talking about Unarmed's damage.
antonyoo wrote:
30 second cooldowns and 3~5 seconds before warping away will be useless considering the existence of ender pearls. And also, there is already a 10 second cooldown for non-pvp enforced zones. However, 30 seconds is hardly enough to kill someone with decent armor, especially after they have taken your sword. I fear that most pvp fights will become, as said before, a chase rather than a fight.

I feel as though it would be better just to get rid of disarming in the first place.

I think something workable could happen if the delays were tweaked enough, but I see your point. With enough pearls, it would be easy to escape, lag or no.
subignition wrote:
dunsjohn wrote:
wall of text

I liked the part where you criticized my sentence structure then started talking about bitches and Hitler. Looks like we agree about mining though. You also contradict yourself talking about Unarmed's damage.
antonyoo wrote:
30 second cooldowns and 3~5 seconds before warping away will be useless considering the existence of ender pearls. And also, there is already a 10 second cooldown for non-pvp enforced zones. However, 30 seconds is hardly enough to kill someone with decent armor, especially after they have taken your sword. I fear that most pvp fights will become, as said before, a chase rather than a fight.

I feel as though it would be better just to get rid of disarming in the first place.

I think something workable could happen if the delays were tweaked enough, but I see your point. With enough pearls, it would be easy to escape, lag or no.

lol, quote my contradiction. Make sure you're correct in what you said.
dunsjohn wrote:

If you want to speak tactically about Disarm, I shall as well. Disarm, if allowed in it's current state, should have something to counter it. Not something to counter all of it, but something to decrease the chances of losing your weapon. Perhaps a parry skill which decreases the chance of losing your weapon. Or perhaps that be included in the acrobatics skill at a later time. In all actuality, disarm doesn't provide a "tactical" advantage. You can't choose when it activates, therefore your use of words is incorrect. Nothing about the skill can you choose. It doesn't help pvp at all because if you try to disarm someone, you have to switch to your hands, dealing no damage and risk dying with all your things. Then again, if you steal someone's weapon (90% of all pvp people probably only carry one weapon with them) you then take an unfair advantage. Each side gains an unfair advantage with this skill. In addition, the damage bonus is ridiculous... you can deal as much damage with your hands as a sword. How fair is that? Not very... therefore if you have disarm, the person with disarm always has an advantage over someone with a weapon.

Although I agree with you in your stance against disarm, I disagree with some of the thoughts you have presented. You said that disarm does not help pvp at all, because you will not deal any damage. This is not true. As you have mentioned, there is a bonus damage that is noticeable, and this certainly cannot be ignored.

However, I believe this is not the main reason why disarm helps someone in pvp. The obvious benefit is that you can take your opponent's weapon. And by doing so, you will have limited the effects of your opponents weapon. And in such manner, I agree with subignition that there is some strategy involved theoretically.

As said before however, such ideal use of the disarm skill will not be evident in most of the pvps. It will, as mentioned several times before, simply turn pvp into a "chase". Unfortunately, I do not have the brains to figure out how to resolve this issue without removing disarm in the first place. I welcome all suggestions.
dunsjohn wrote:
lol, quote my contradiction. Make sure you're correct in what you said.
dunsjohn wrote:
It doesn't help pvp at all because if you try to disarm someone, you have to switch to your hands, dealing no damage and risk dying with all your things
dunsjohn wrote:
In addition, the damage bonus is ridiculous... you can deal as much damage with your hands as a sword. How fair is that? Not very...

Edit: What if Disarm randomized your active inventory slot, or put your currently held weapon into your inventory / swapped it with something inside? That would prevent people stealing weaponry and would also let the skill be useful, until someone decides to fill all 36 slots in their inventory with swords. <object class="emojione" data="https://resources.enjin.com/1489581540/themes/core/images/emojione/svg/1f62f.svg?0" type="image/svg+xml" standby=":shock:">:shock:</object>
omg... you're taking things out of context, please read everything carefully and see that the middle quote you just gave was based on an argument of comparison of hand to enchanted weapon. Read EVERYTHING, don't just twist words to your advantage. LOL.

As to your edit, that sounds good about the randomized item switching instead of dropping the item. I mean, after all if you die you drop your items anyways so no need to give ridiculous advantages to people. But, even if you filled your full inventory with swords, not all of them would be the same. In addition, why would someone do that if there is the possibility of losing? Imagine, 36*2 = 72 + 8 + 4 + 7 + 5 = 96 diamonds lost, plus the levels for enchantment. That'd be a waste.
subignition wrote:

Edit: What if Disarm randomized your active inventory slot, or put your currently held weapon into your inventory / swapped it with something inside? That would prevent people stealing weaponry and would also let the skill be useful, until someone decides to fill all 36 slots in their inventory with swords. <object class="emojione" data="https://resources.enjin.com/1489581540/themes/core/images/emojione/svg/1f62f.svg?0" type="image/svg+xml" standby=":shock:">:shock:</object>

This is a brilliant idea. But can it actually be made to work this way? Intuitively, I feel as though this will require a lot of work...


Edited: and maybe make it so that if you get disarmed in the manner described above, you cant open your inventory for a couple of seconds?
dunsjohn wrote:
In addition, why would someone do that if there is the possibility of losing? Imagine, 36*2 = 72 + 8 + 4 + 7 + 5 = 96 diamonds lost, plus the levels for enchantment. That'd be a waste.

I very much doubt someone would go to that extreme, but if I'm making a suggestion I have to imagine all the edge cases. A full inventory, and a full inventory of weapons, are two.

antonyoo, sadly I don't think it's possible to prevent a player from opening their inventory with just server mods.
subignition wrote:
dunsjohn wrote:
In addition, why would someone do that if there is the possibility of losing? Imagine, 36*2 = 72 + 8 + 4 + 7 + 5 = 96 diamonds lost, plus the levels for enchantment. That'd be a waste.

I very much doubt someone would go to that extreme, but if I'm making a suggestion I have to imagine all the edge cases. A full inventory, and a full inventory of weapons, are two.

antonyoo, sadly I don't think it's possible to prevent a player from opening their inventory with just server mods.

lol, rejecting what I said when it was YOU who said about someone with a full inventory of weapons, and I was telling you how many diamonds that would be... lmao... this kid.