Warps, protections, and chest locking is not even remotely comparable to this pluging. They are necessary to be able to play on a server with this many people and this large of a map. MCMMO on the other hand, fundamentaly changes some major aspects of gameplay and there are more than a few people who dont want that to happen. Many people like Minecraft for the simplicity of it and adding these unneccessary mechanics ruins that for a lot of people.

Also, subignition: Your comment about disarm being good for giving people with a weapon the disadavantage, that makes no sense whatsoever and is the reason this skill is rediculous. It doesnt add "another layer of tactics". If you go into combat with no weapon against someone with a sword, you should be at an EXTREME disadvantage. Period. This skill will turn pvp into a total joke, with nothing but people punching each other trying to steal weapons. The phrase "too reliant on their weapons" is a rediculous thing to say about pvpers considering weapons are the entire basis for combat. I would also comment on the other pvp skills, but I dont pvp enough to care much about the effects those will have, so I dont care to debate about those ones.

In addition, think of the saying "Who brings a knife to a gun fight?" The one with a knife almost always loses. Why? Because they are at range. Same thing with sword vs hand. If I have a sword and I swing it at you... trying to stop it with your hand will only make you lose your hand. It makes no sense with how the game was based, to include this skill (being disarm). The others, I can tolerate, but disarm makes no sense. At the very least, it'd need a heavy nerf. I mean... think about it. If I shoot you while you're running at me, what are the odds you'd dodge the shot? If I swing a sword at you or thrust a knife towards you, what are the odds you'd dodge? Let alone disarm. In order to disarm, you'd have to dodge the attack as well. If it had more variability, I'd accept it. For example, if you had disarm when you're behind the person, that makes sense. You'd, in real life, get hold of them and force the weapon out of their hand. You can't really do that from in front very effectively. If you tried to do so, there's the other hand as well as now legs to worry about. You can't really kick someone hard who's behind you, it's just too difficult to bend the hip in that direction.

As Fettuccini said, you can't compare protections and ease of access to mcmmo. How does mcmmo affect the map size or prevent theft or grieving? We have around 400-500 monthly active users. Our world size, last I checked, was around 13,000x13,000 units. That's huge. We NEED warps to get around. If you relied on carts, we'd lag the server so hard. Imagine 100 people using carts at the same time. That seems to be too much stress on the cpu. Even now with carts, you can't ride them. Well sure you can, but you literally poof on different parts of the track. Sometimes my cart doesn't even follow the track and will keep going in some random direction until it hits a wall. Protections and locks hardly change gameplay aspects. Actually, only warps do. You warp to a different point instead of walking or whatever. You can still mine and all that stuff. Mcmmo, on the other hand, gives you all these bonus things when you mine. This then means you change the gameplay dramatically. This is just reinforcing Fett's statement, though I do believe some parts of mcmmo are good. I actually love the repair part... not sure if I'd use anything else in it, honestly.

If/When it comes back, I will certainly be PVPing much less.

I loved doing this in pvp zones.... i got lot of Good epic swords and bows this way

That just goes to further prove my point. Pvp will be turned into just stealing weapons from each other without actually killing anyone. In other words, you get rewarded for using a cheap ability that requires no pvp skill whatsoever. How is that in any way not rediculous?

Its like a 1/75 Chance at lvl 100 unarmed, So it not like i can just run up and steal your weapon.. Me bacon and 2 other people where messing around and we would die most of the time before we could steal anything

I would be more worried about some one with an ax, Me and my friend tested it out and EVEN with full diamond armor he would crit me with an axe for 4-5 hearts

Regardless, its still a cheap ability. That may be a small chance in 1 on 1 fights, but think about how often it will happen in larger fights and especially in pvp events. A 1/75 chance is pretty enormous in that kind of situation.

Sigh, entire page of responses while I type one post... I'm slow. Actually, now that I'm done typing, this post is just %!@#ing gigantic.

I'm not being a dick about it at all. I haven't cursed, I haven't insulted anyone, I disagreed with his view and provided evidence for mine. That's how arguing works. Perhaps my absolute rhetoric was hyperbole but I think you'll find that by most standards I'm being quite reasonable.

Let's be perfectly clear here. The idea of the skill is great. The implementation is not. MCMMO's PVP isn't balanced yet, even its author has said as much, but that doesn't mean Disarm should be removed. It makes sense thematically and from a tactical standpoint, and while it needs balance and bug fixes (I believe Disarm currently is active even if you're using a weapon) it's definitely a fantastic idea.

Okay, I was being a little hostile when I wrote that phrase, but let's not get into why I have a problem with him complaining about getting disarmed, because, hey, we're being respectful. Also that will be addressed further on.

stupid forum software has post reply hotkeyed to enter.. grumble grumble posting my messages before they're done being written...

Every once in a while I get my hands a little dirty with mechanics. Mostly because plugins like this are as fascinating as they are mystifying.

So to summarize:

• Minetown will endure long enough that players with maxed out Mining will become a significant problem; and

• the passive is unfair over Fortune because it always applies?

(Again, for clarity, Mining Double Drops will only apply to: Glowstone Block, Netherrack, Sandstone, Stone, Coal Ore, Redstone Ore, Obsidian, Iron Ore, Gold Ore, Lapis Lazuli Ore, Diamond Ore)

I certainly agree that Minetown has the long-term potential to produce players with extremely high levels. I still don't think the effect those players would have is very significant though.

You still haven't really convinced me that there's any significant threat to the stability of the server or the economy. Fortune picks have durability, but they're also easy enough to get that it's not difficult to have one all the time. But let's ignore them for a minute: I assert that the Mining passive is balanced because it increases everything. Think about someone who has level 1000 mining. They'll get double the gold blocks, and double the iron, but they're also getting double the cobble, twice the sandstone, two-for-one netherrack, etc. Since the server is not, and probably will never be, at a point where resources are scarce due to over-mining, (or in other words if we simplify by saying that the supply of resources to mine is unlimited for the purpose of this discussion) we can generalize this bonus as accomplishing twice the work per unit time. And having to spend less time getting the resources you need for a project is a reward that I think anyone dedicated enough to fully acquire it deserves.

A little more exposition. Will double drops inflate the economy? Yes, absolutely, there will be more of everything so currency will have to be worth less. But it's already inflating. It's easy to find more than 3 diamonds with one diamond pickaxe, so regular mining is increasing the total currency pool. You can receive up to 1,400 MTC per day by voting, and if you don't spend them at /warp cs or /warp adminshop, that inflates the economy. What do I envision happening? Gradually there will be more obsidian available as a building material. Even more gradually the price of glass will drop, because less sand needs to be made into sandstone. Everyone will decorate everything with lapis blocks because, lol, it's lapis.

I'm not trying to say double drops wouldn't have an effect, because it certainly would. What I am saying is that where it would take us, we're already going, just at a slower rate. If inflation gets too pronounced, I am sure the staff will find a way to create an MTC/diamond sink.

btw if you're trying to indent with your <> there is BBCode to indent

You're thinking about this all wrong. Unarmed is (or should be) a tactical option, not a lifestyle choice. If you're prepared you can handle it easily. Potion of weakness makes unarmed deal zero damage. If someone's coming at you with their bare hands, you can shoot them with an arrow, for Ignition or Daze or the Knockback enchant.

I DID NOT MEAN someone without a weapon should be able to just waltz in and win a fight. However if someone's using an enchanted sword, and you switch to your bare hands and knock it away from them, and they don't have any other weapons or weapon skills, then maybe you deserve the advantage. The point of Disarm, to me, is to discourage people from specializing in one weapon skill and relying on it. Unarmed shouldn't be a great way of actually killing people, which it is currently because of the ridiculous damage bonuses, but eh.

Obviously, you are not talking gibberish, and most of what we are discussing is about how we put a different amount of significance on different values. And again, thank you for the detailed reply. It makes it much easier to know where you are coming from, and therefore frees me from having to assume what you are assuming.

However, I would ask that you to give the disarm ability one more thought. And don't get me wrong, I understand that in its own way, it adds a special function for pvpers, Whether it is strategic or cheap is our difference of opinion. And yes, the theoretical applications of this function can be seen as strategic. Yet in practice, people are obviously going to abuse it just to "steal" rather than "fight". One person even commented on the post that he successfully took many weapons using this method.

I aslo believe that his cannot be handled easily. Potion of weakness negates the damage caused by bare hands. However that is not the issue here. It is the function of one person being able to steal another persons weapon. And also, dealing damage is not the intent of people who rush at you with bare hands. It's simply to take your weapon, not to kill.

And yes, you can shoot these kinds of people with arrows. However, due to lag, arrows are not as effective as it is presented. And even if there was less lag, I find this kind of interaction to be "me having to deal with a troll", rather than "me fighting an opponent".

The though of bare handed people who are ready to warp away as soon as they successfully pull off the disarm skill is rather disturbing. If there is way to enforce people to use this skill as a tactic rather than a way to simply steal others' weapons and run away, I would at least agree that they add a strategic aspect to the game. However, at the moment, this is not so.

Regardless, Thanks again for the detailed reply. People rarely take the time to provide such a response.

I didn't really realize people would yank weapons and warp away, but I can think of an easy fix for that.

In free PVP zones, make all warp/teleport commands force you to be unmoving for 3-5 seconds before warping. Or, a 30 second cooldown after giving/receiving PVP damage (in ANY world) before you can warp.

Edit: Actually, this kind of fix is something that should happen regardless of MCMMO, it's annoying to have people warp away to heal just before dying.