After yesterday I have no such sense of confidence. Maybe Bumpy should be the only person that has that ability? Or something equally fair. When you are mad someone burned down all your shit, it is easy to forget "you shouldn't" imo.

You're absolutely right it should be limited. That's what we've been saying this whole time. Those of us that accept how vanilla is, won't get salty about it but you're right people can be tempted.

I totally agree. I think that if log-checking shouldn't be done for other players it should be tightly regulated. As staff we're expected to have integrity, but knowing that someone is there to hold you accountable goes a long way. As the old saying goes, "Convenience makes a thief." I believe an evaluation of integrity should be part of the application process anyways, and I'm confident it is.

I'm worried that by voting no then the ability to check logs will then be taken away from the public and only be used by staff. Kind of the whole if we make guns illegal then only criminals will have guns argument - which is normally illogical but I'm expressing my feeling/emotion on this subject not the logic of it. I know this isn't the case for most of staff but it is a worry that log checking will become something some people on staff do in secret and we wouldn't know they are doing it. Does the command get tracked or will it be restricted to only manager level staff?

Also, I'd like to thank Bumpy and Rodney for being our most trusted members. I know it is a lot of work/headache doing what you do - Thank you.

It has been my life experience that most people will not cause harm when they will have no personal gain and almost no one will when there is accountability. However, there are a few that become as destructive and painful to others as they can be no matter the situation. Perhaps it is a way to express internal trauma in an outlet they think will leave them at peace but it never does. It continues a cycle of abuse that continues to grow. When grief becomes part of the mainstream culture on a server, community breaks down and tribalism is strengthen. I doubt that a mindset that is picked up while playing on vanilla will be limited to only vanilla and it will hurt us all as a community and how we build up minetown's population again.

That being said, when asked about the intention of the vanilla server. I think it is clear that pushing detective work onto a group of people who's only responsibility on the vanilla server is to make sure that it is on, updated, and not causing bugs goes against the desire to have vanilla be a basic server - but so does having claims and unbreakable chest. There is a reason we do not have vanilla set to "only your enderchest contents are safe" - Our vanilla server is more forgiving then the base game. We also have the nether highway. To say that we shouldn't allow log checking available to everyone because of the intention of the server being basic.... well, that boat has already sailed and for good reason. We instead need to talk about if there is good reason to take away log checking from the public.

Depends. Do we want to simplify Vanilla, or amplify the gamemode into a game of Clue?

With log-checking enabled, finding out who did what is more of a demoralizing social disruption, and turns players to investigate motivations directly. There is less emotional intrigue, less investment. There's no reason to trust people because the trust is in the plugin's accuracy, or rather its handlers.

Without log-checking, it more or less becomes a universally-directed confusion with more complex trust networks between people. The sociopolitical game is on, and the scandals are much more drawn-out and intense with the flood of conflicting information as each player weighs their decisions on who to party with (if anyone). This can be too intense for a fair number of people to play solo/small groups.

Personally, I think the logs should simply be there strictly for server-preservation use. If the server is hampered (performance-wise only) due to a contraption, gathering of entities, or other in-game mechanic, it should be investigated so that people can enjoy the ferocity that is Vanilla.

Vanilla isn't UHC, but it still scratches that laissez-faire itch Main doesn't always satisfy.

Am I the only person thinking that this is a game and that this is a lot of drama and contention for a game? Is it really worth investing all of this energy, frustration and debate in to a simple game mechanic? I'm here to have fun and relax, not engage in a moral ethics debate or have people back-handedly insult my integrity.